Hmmm well I did an BA in History-right after highschool and lived at home,graduated,lived in London and came back and realized that my degree got me absolutely no where. But now I'm back and doing a masters but at least this degree once finished is in a field where there are plenty of real jobs.
So my advice, if this helps at all, is go for your degree but make sure there are actual jobs out there and that they are plentiful. Or else the entire time you spent in uni might just feel like a waste of time and money.
If it is just enlightenment you are seeking...well I am currently marking first year papers and it might take a couple of years to find that...
Connections, enlightenment, and opportunity? Maybe. If you're good at networking, and if you come across some amazing professors, it might be worth your while. Obviously, you get out of it what you put into it.
What might be frustrating for you is getting through all your gen ed's (and sometimes even the upper divisions)...imagine having to take numerous college courses with 18 year olds, and the professor saying something completely idiotic like, "Did you know that racism is still pervasive today in ways that are less visible?" Or attending discussion groups where no one discusses anything because they don't care and didn't do the reading. I'm sure you've already thought of this, but you might want to get through all your requirements at a city college and transfer to a university to finish up.
Now, say you do that and you've got your bachelor's, but everybody says it's worthless because now you've got to get your master's. Would you feel better because you've got your BA, or would you feel pressured to go back to school? Because they really like to dig it in; the year I graduated, professors hinted that I'd simply die if I didn't get my masters.
To be honest, for writing, I'm not convinced that any of this is necessary if you've got the ability and discipline to self learn/teach. Unless you find a really amazing writing program that suits you, writing workshops (like Clarion, although that's geared towards science fiction/fantasy writers) might be a better alternative.
I'm not sure any of this was helpful, but I definitely sympathize with you. Let us know what you decide.
JB-
Here's my short answer to your question based solely on my own experience: Yes and No.
And here's my long answer:
I graduated from high school and went straight to college, graduating with a BA in English and Women's Studies. My first two years, in particular, were extraordinary. I learned so much about myself and the world and I learned, above all, how to think critically. I had amazing professors who modeled lifelong learning and who challenged me to think--and do--as hard and as much as I could. One professor was totally psyched about my proposal to create an independent study for a group of friends, and he helped me craft a syllabus and the content of the course. The chaplain (and I've never been religious) encouraged me to travel to China, which I did and which he largely made possible. Though a devoted humanities person, I took classes ranging from Desert Geology (which was taught at Big Bend National Park) to Field Botany and every single class (with the exception of Math 101, which I failed) made a lasting impression and difference in my life.
I then moved to NYC, where I'd been offered an internship in creative arts therapy upon graduation (my women's studies thesis was about creative arts therapies used for women with cancer). The internship turned into a full time job and I decided to get a Masters of Social Work from NYU. I hated it. The professors seemed stretched way too thin (most were authors, administrators at social service clinics, involved in boards, etc. etc), I didn't feel that they were really invested in students, and-- KEY-- I wasn't learning anything in the program. What they were teaching, I'd already learned in my undergrad program--and the BA I had wasn't even psych or social work focused--and in my work experience as a counselor in a clinic for HIV+ men with histories of drug use and incarceration. After the first year in the program, I sat towards the back of the class (which I'd never done before) and I read books or wrote the entire time. I didn't go to my graduation, and that degree is sitting in an envelope somewhere. By the way, before I received my MSW I'd received a promotion to assistant director of the agency where I worked, and when I graduated I didn't receive a penny more in my salary, though I did request a raise.
When I moved to Puerto Rico, I felt that I was in an environment where I'd languish intellectually, so I applied for a PhD program in literature. In Spanish. My goal was never to put Dr. in front of my name or to eventually pursue employment as a professor. I was psyched, but again felt like I was spinning my wheels. For one thing, we were reading literary theory from Europe and the US. In a Latin American program, totally obviating Spanish speaking theorists seemed absurd to me. I was practically chased out of class (literally) when I raised an objection to a text. I took a work-related hiatus from the PhD program and have considered transferring to Columbia or NYU. But I realized something really important: The more I'm in formal education, the more I realize that I can learn any of the theories and ideas on my own. Every day I'm learning, but I'll never receive a degree for it.
That being said, I recognize that our society holds out the promise (often undelivered) that the more degrees one has, the more successful one can be in his or her chosen profession. But in my own experience, and in the experience of people I know, degrees may have opened a door, but they didn't help them up the ladder or make any other tangible difference. The REAL value of a degree is something you can achieve, I think, on your own and in the company of like-minded others.
I don't think you're a nose-picking troglodyte and I'm not sure you want to be a bespectacled gentleman. Just be you. You're a pretty interesting person, and while a degree might be useful, I definitely don't think it's necessary.
Hey JB - Fascinating post!
I'm sorry to say I don't have a non-trad College experience to offer - went straight there after high school, loved pretty much everything about it, still keep in touch with favourite profs, worked harder than I ever have before because I was actually INTERESTED in what I was doing, felt inspired to contribute to the community I found myself in, etc, etc, etc - but I do have a couple of observations about the people I saw around me.
1) "Mature" students, as they're officially referred to, almost always seemed to be getting more out of their courses than the vast majority of those of us who were fresh out of our prom dresses. They were motivated, they knew what they wanted, and frankly, despite the fact that I hated every time one of them made a reference to having life experience "in the real world", said experience did help them to put their learning into context. They might have had a few tedious hoops to jump through, but they generally seemed to be enjoying a positive experience.
2) I don't know many people who didn't take the college route immediately after high school... but I do know some people who probably should have looked at their options instead. Plenty of kids who were there because that's what their families expected of them, drinking away their tuition money and hop-scotching from major to major, flirting with academic probation, when they probably would have been happier learning a trade, playing in a band, or doing anything other than studying for a few years, until they'd had a chance to figure out what interested them. Which is to say, the "conventional wisdom" isn't always right, and so do feel free to resist the pressure to go back to school, if you don't think it's for you.
3) "I feel like there will be connections, enlightenment and opportunity." There certainly were for me - I used to say if I had the means, I'd just stay in school forever and do BA after BA, in all the various subjects that I wanted to major in at one time or another. But as at least one someone above has said, you get out of it what you put into it. And a certain amount of luck and external circumstances help, too. I went to a school where the profs were thrilled to have a student come by after class to talk something out, or to ask how they could improve on their next paper, or even just to chat. I enrolled in a program that was high on self-directed reading and essay-writing, and low on formulaic assignments and multiple choice tests. I lived in a city that I loved, that was full of theater and live music and history and interesting public lecture series, so I really felt like my education was going on both in and out of the classroom. Change even one of those factors, and I might have felt like I was stuck in a second round of high school, minus the bathroom passes.
This is no kind of answer, but I guess the thing to do would be to really think about what you want to get out of it. It sounds like you're onto something with "connections, enlightenment and opportunity" - now you just need to figure out what program or school or location is most likely to get you those things...
What/where are you thinking of applying for, anyhow?
Hey Oliveberad!
I must say that our situations are oddly similar, even though you have two years and a kid on me in the life experience category!
When I finished High School, I was to jaded to go to university. I thought that it was not needed, as everywhere I have ever been hard-work and determination has always trumped education. I traveled. I worked in tourism, as an environmental consultant and skied a lot of days. I was happy, but I was always working for somebody and dreamed of going my own way. Somewhere along the way, I got interested in politics, environmental management and writing. Those are some difficult professions to get into without that fancy piece of paper!
So, now I will begin a 10 month written image course that is basically a long workshop on writing structure and photography skills. Its not a university program, but it is a good starting point to hone my skills, receive professional guidance and start networking in an industry that is truly based on who you know.
I would recommend University only if you are ready and dedicated to it. It may serve some great options out there, but do not be persuaded by the masses of people saying that you need to obtain a degree to be in equal social circles. Many people who study for years often lack the life skills that alternative people receive from getting out and experiencing the world.
Follow your own path.
Joined: 01-06-07
Seven years ago, I thought college was an option--literally, I thought that I had the "choice" of whether or not to go. This was based of two things: 1) the people who had degrees did not consistently exhibit any advanced level of critical thinking and 2) In the United States of America, hard work and dedication brings large cash rewards.
And for me, this came true. I worked for free, got certifications, cut my hair, and fought tooth-and-nail to establish myself in a well-paying industry (we'll just call it "Technology", for simplicity sake).
When I decided I didn't want to do that (for someone else) anymore, I felt any other career path would be the same. Hard work and dedication were just as invaluable to employers as any piece of paper. I could even save $10,000-100,000 USD in the process. So I started writing.
Here's my conundrum: at the tender age of 25, I don't have the luxury of time on my hands. Yes, yes, I know, I’m young and I have my whole life ahead of me, thank you grandma. Except, unlike when I was 16, I now have a wife, kid and mortgage to consider.
Amongst the denizens of Matador, I thought perhaps I'd find like company. Maybe I could justify my skewed opinions through minority consensus. Yet time and again, I hear references to dorm rooms, thought provoking professors and mind-blowing study abroad programs.
My one ray of hope was that I could find a writer with a similar situation; some historical example of someone who drew a semi-consistent paycheck without having been formally educated. Reading byline after byline, from generation after generation, I found 1 verified example.
Samuel Clemens a.k.a., Mark Twain.
Wait a minute....no...Jesus f*^$ing Christ, even J.K. Rowling has a BA in French and Classics at the University of Exeter.
Now, even amongst my siblings, I'm becoming an oddball. While the generations prior to me saw almost no one graduating from college (my father barely graduated High School...but that's an odd story), my siblings are all educated. Even my sloped-forehead gorilla of an older brother is on his remaining few credits for a bachelor's degree.
I'm beginning to feel self-conscious. I don't think I'm stupid, but I have no proof to the contrary. There is nothing to differentiate me from the great unwashed; I used to find that endearing, even liberating, but now it feels...suffocating.
I'm staring at a University application now. The phrase "26 year old freshman" flashes through my mind. I don't want to go to attend a bachelor's program for the money, but neither do I want my new family to suffer because of my foolish pride or my undying allegiance to unfounded opinions.
I feel like there will be connections, enlightenment and opportunity. Somewhere in that pile of academic drivel is some insight, some magical door that—once traversed—will change me from nose-picking troglodyte, to bespectacled gentleman. I never wanted to believe it was there, but reality seems to be telling me otherwise.
Is this the right thing to do? Does anyone else have a non-trad College experience that can make my decision even a smidgen easier?